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  1. #21
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    Nice review.

  2. #22
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    Andrew,

    I don't detect anything from you that says this is the 4K the future is made of. Do I read between the lines too much?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Andrew Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassEarDrum View Post
    Andrew,

    I don't detect anything from you that says this is the 4K the future is made of. Do I read between the lines too much?
    4K is coming and is very much our future, but with respect to the Sony the future hasn't been written yet and while the technology exists to enjoy 4K now there are simply too many variables that NEED to be worked out and standardized before we need to be concerned with how to watch 4K in our homes. I wish manufacturers would stop making technology for consumer use before there is a consumer need/standard. Cell phones do it (4G), computers do it (8-cores) etc. We'll get to 4K sooner or later but the Sony just isn't the right product for a lot of consumers to get behind.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Stephen Trask's Avatar
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    I'm really getting into the ethos that you seem to be developing, questioning orthodoxies and commonly held viewpoints and audiophile common wisdoms, the attention you are paying to the end user experience and actual value, the shopping experience of the everyday consumer. That said, I am not sure I agree with some of the logic you're employing here. First of all, anyone spending more than either you or I spent on our respective cars on a projector falls into 1 of 2 categories. They are either first adopter technophiles with money to burn who want a 4k projector so damn bad or they are idle rich folk who have personal shoppers in all aspects of their lives equipping their homes with the latest and greatest. You know, the one percent of the one percent. OK, Mitt Romney. For either of these types, this is a perfectly fine purchase and much, much less than the only other alternative by a factor of 6, I think. And second, and more importantly, someone has to go first. You can't wait for content to be developed for non-existent players before someone will develop that content. 4G phones pushed carriers to build out their 4G networks. 8-core computers drive software developers to write multi core programs. When I got my first 8-core Mac Pro it was screaming fast. There wasn't much that could take advantage of it's power. But it didn't take long before the various plug-ins and programs I license started using that power and I had to start monitoring my core usage. I think that all the performance issues that you bring up in your review are important to focus on but not sure that the question of whether or not this product should exist should be a driving factor in determining the value of the product. My 2 cents, as Ray Jr. might say.

  5. #25
    Administrator Tracy Rainwater's Avatar
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    Sony and a handful of other companies are using the "If you build it, they will come." theory. There is no 4K content i available or in the foreseeable future. There will have to be major advances on many CE fronts for 4K to become a reality. I'm not saying it won't happen, I think they are umping the gun a bit. Wow, that's a lot of metaphors.

    As far as this projector, it is a true bargain compared to the only other 4K, or is it faux-K, projector on the market. However even at the 25K "bargain" price, couldn't they have thrown in some type of color management? The head of Sony's sales must have taken the head of engineering out for drinks because it sounds like a planned upgrade path to me.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Andrew Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Trask View Post
    I'm really getting into the ethos that you seem to be developing, questioning orthodoxies and commonly held viewpoints and audiophile common wisdoms, the attention you are paying to the end user experience and actual value, the shopping experience of the everyday consumer. That said, I am not sure I agree with some of the logic you're employing here. First of all, anyone spending more than either you or I spent on our respective cars on a projector falls into 1 of 2 categories. They are either first adopter technophiles with money to burn who want a 4k projector so damn bad or they are idle rich folk who have personal shoppers in all aspects of their lives equipping their homes with the latest and greatest. You know, the one percent of the one percent. OK, Mitt Romney. For either of these types, this is a perfectly fine purchase and much, much less than the only other alternative by a factor of 6, I think. And second, and more importantly, someone has to go first. You can't wait for content to be developed for non-existent players before someone will develop that content. 4G phones pushed carriers to build out their 4G networks. 8-core computers drive software developers to write multi core programs. When I got my first 8-core Mac Pro it was screaming fast. There wasn't much that could take advantage of it's power. But it didn't take long before the various plug-ins and programs I license started using that power and I had to start monitoring my core usage. I think that all the performance issues that you bring up in your review are important to focus on but not sure that the question of whether or not this product should exist should be a driving factor in determining the value of the product. My 2 cents, as Ray Jr. might say.
    I agree however the argument surrounding someone has to be first is not what 4K needs right now. Just because Sony went first and arguably did it right doesn't mean it's a solid investment. For example, what if the home 4K format is finally ratified and ends up being nothing more than QFHD in its resolution with Blu-ray's existing color space and bit depth? There are more signs that point to this being the reality, meaning the Sony is actually overkill -or in other words you paid to much for features you WILL NEVER be able to use.

    Conversely, in the end of my review I state that I hope the existence of the VPL-VW1000 forces others to come out with true 4K content much the way 4G, 8-Core etc forces those to engineer up to the technology versus pander to it. That being said, and in talking to Sony's own people, there is little consensus as to what will be the 4K standard and just like with Blu-ray and HD-DVD many of the manufacturers think they know better than the others. If you're a 1%-er with movie tastes that afford you luxuries like the Bel Air Circuit or similar than the Sony IS the projector for you, however as the managing editor of a CE publication I must weigh their needs along with the needs of folks like you and me.

    When considering all the variables the Sony simply isn't a good enough value, nor a good enough projector with 1080p content to warrant my recommendation when you also take into consideration its $25,000 asking price.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Stephen Trask's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Robinson View Post
    . If you're a 1%-er with movie tastes that afford you luxuries like the Bel Air Circuit or similar than the Sony IS the projector for you, however as the managing editor of a CE publication I must weigh their needs along with the needs of folks like you and me.
    So, if the standards go toward GFHD then this will be useless? That would suck. As far as taking into consideration the needs of folks like us, I see the price tag and I know this is not for me. I have that reaction to pretty much any CE product over $2,500, which doesn't make me a great customer, I know. Personally, I can't even get passed the fact the VPL usually means visible panty lines, the funniest high def video acronym since EDTV.

    So, does Sony have any plans to begin making content available with this particular device? They certainly have a big library of films and catalogue of games. If they were to make content available in sufficient quantities would that change your opinion?

  8. #28
    Senior Member Andrew Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Trask View Post
    If they were to make content available in sufficient quantities would that change your opinion?
    Like I told Sony, had they had consumer available 4K content out to demo and use with the Sony projector the rating would've undoubtedly been higher, however since they didn't it had to be viewed via the content available today which is 1080p. As a 1080p projector it does NOT outperform other 1080p projectors that can be had today. Sony doesn't hint as to when their 4K content will be available, some put it at the end of the year while others maintain it's still 18+ months away! Who knows.

    The bottom line is this, there is no home 4K standard yet and until one is ratified I'd sit and wait it out for if you buy too big -like the Sony -and it ends up being QFHD you just pissed a lot of money away. If you buy too soon and get a QFHD display and true 4K is the ultimate end game than you're going to be SOL. This is why I maintain the argument that while someone has to go first, there's too many unresolved variables surrounding 4K that you could either make the right decision or the absolute wrong one. While my money is on QFHD being the home standard, thanks to its play-nice with 16:9 aspect ratio , I've been wrong before (I thought HD DVD would win). Regardless, even the most well heeled videophile could buy a top of the line JVC today at $12K and a 4K projector for the same money 12-24 months from now and still be ahead financially versus buying the Sony today. Furthermore, the Sony will require you to buy not one, but two, outboard scalar/processors if you want your picture quality to be dead-nuts accurate, which for $25K is inexcusable.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Stephen Trask's Avatar
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    Thanks, Andrew. I get more clearly what you're saying. Not to say you weren't being clear, but this is a subject on which I had to do some research just to be part of the conversation. I, of course, will be sitting this one out until there is product available that's closer to the price of a wince inducing car repair than the price of a car. The standards issue reminds me more of some of the money spent on EV charging infrastructure, which has gone to charging stations that may not work with near-future vehicles, as a charging standard hasn't yet been settled upon.

    Do you say QFHD plays nice with 16:9 just because of the math, that it is a simple doubling of pixels or is there something else? personally, I was betting on BluRay in that fight because I thought it would look better and film makers, as you undoubtedly know, really care about that stuff. And the people running the companies are still film buffs - the studios haven't fallen to the accountants yet the way that record companies did before they simply fell.
    Last edited by Stephen Trask; 03-16-2012 at 05:26 AM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Andrew Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Trask View Post
    Do you say QFHD plays nice with 16:9 just because of the math, that it is a simple doubling of pixels or is there something else? personally, I was betting on BluRay in that fight because I thought it would look better and film makers, as you undoubtedly know, really care about that stuff.
    You are correct, QFHD plays nice with 16:9 because of the math. As for the increased color space and bit depth, it's not aspect ratio or resolution specific.

    I though Blu-ray was at a disadvantage (not because it looked better, it doesn't) but because of a few factors. First, there was the name, Blu-ray, which doesn't imply HD nor disc, something I thought would create consumer confusion. Second, HD-DVD was open source where as Blu-ray was not. Because of the resounding success of DVD I thought manufactures would side with another open source platform, but upon further investigation I learned that it was DVD's "freeness" that angered a lot of manufacturers -least of all Sony. Lastly, because HD DVD seemed to work from day one and have a steady increase in performance each iteration I simply thought Blu-ray was to late to the party. But Sony dug deep, whipped out their checkbook and "bought" the war, which gives me hope for 4K, for Sony could do the same and force a standard upon us -one that would obviously favor them and the 1000ES if they'd like. However, Sony isn't in the same financial situation they once were when they threw down and executed HD DVD.

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